Why no “heroic fantasy?”
A certain writer wrote to me today with the following observation:
I’ve been paging through the year’s best anthologies. It seems like none of them have traditional fantasy. There seem to be a lot with more contemporary/modern themes. My stories are mostly heroic fantasy. Why is that genre missing from “Best of” anthos? Is it out of style?
What do you think? Has heroic fantasy taken a dive, replaced by modern fancies like slipstream New Weird, and Steampunk? Or is it still out there? Is our querent mistaken?
In my personal opinion, I think that heroic fantasy is still there, but has been absorbed and changed to reflect modern literary preoccupations. Of course maybe I should ask first: do we have a working definition of heroic fantasy? Maybe we should begin there. If I really start to think about it, I’m not sure if I can come up with a satisfactory definition of the term. Maybe you can.
So, what is heroic fantasy, and by your own definition, is it still out there? Is it less popular? Why?
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Well, I’m not entirely sure what “heroic fantasy” entails to everyone, but for me I think it’s still lively, just not in short form. Heroic fantasy tends to fall into the trappings of cliches and I think perhaps it’s less likely that people would be very interested in such stories in short form because it can be a little difficult to add something new to it all. But that’s just what I think and I’m not expert. I do know that heroic fantasy is still around, since you can find it everywhere in the fantasy book section.
Although, if there are really interesting ideas left to “heroic fantasy” in the short form I would like to see them, but I think most of the stuff I’ve read in that vein has been basic rewritings of typical heroic fantasy stories…and that gets old really fast.
My short answer: it is currently in-vogue to look down your nose, and scoff at heroic fantasy and high fantasy. The objurgatory words “cliché,” “trite,” and “derivative” incessantly orbit these genres, making them the current pariahs in an already narrow market. It is regrettably true that these genres may be saturated with mediocrity, but I still love good, classic, sword-and-sorcery fantasy.
This is only my 2 and 1/2 pence of opinion.
I would like to know how many short fiction stories are considered epic fantasy and where they are being published.
That said, All Star Stories came out with Twenty Epics (anthology) in 2006. It was recommended by Locus, “A Siege of Cranes” from Benjamin Rosenbaum was nominated for a World Fantasy Award, and that story was reprinted in three major anthologies.
I don’t know. I don’t think it is showing up too often in professional short fiction pubications. Probably because the stories being submitted feel like the same old thing. That’s just an assumption on my part, and I could be completely wrong.
I call bullshit. I’ve been hearing this “where’s my epic fantasy” clap trap crap for over four years now. And its there. You can see it. It’s not hidden. In YBFH there are quite a few. But you know what? Heroic fantasy short stories have never really been “in”. Not in a long time.
The 70’s? The 60’s? I’ve got a whole lot of issues of F&SF and Fatastic, and the amount of Herioc fantasy compared to other kinds of fantasy and scifi is about 10 to 1 (10 being the number of non-heroic fantasies).
I’m sick to death of hearing this.
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I wonder if “Heroic Fantasy” is suffering form the same malaise that “Space Opera” went through in the late 60s/early 70s?
Steve-
There is no malaise. Nope. Nada. It’s never really been hugely popular. you have a few breakout writers (like Jordan and Brooks and etc), but that’s about it.
Most of the heroic fantasy that you’ll find out there is in novel form rather than short story. Not sure why. But yeah, it’s still out there.
Now, “heroic fantasy” is something we’ve yet to define. If I’m going to read that kind of thing I prefer Fritz Leiber and Robert E. Howard, but I’m not sure if I would identify them as “heroic fantasy.” Maybe Swords & Sorcery? Is that different?
Can someone define heroic fantasy?
Hey, and for that matter, can someone define “traditional fantasy?” What does that mean? People have been telling tales of the fantastic since they could form words: myths, sagas, religion….and of course works like those done by R.A. Eddison precede Tolkein’s, which may people hold up as a work of traditional fantasy. I have the feeling that all of our definitions will crumble to pieces if we begin to hold them up to the light.
For definitions, I’m more or less happy with Wikipedia: “Heroic fantasy is a sub-genre of fantasy literature which chronicles the tales of heroes and their conquests in imaginary lands. Stories tend to be intricate in plot, often involving many peoples, nations and lands. Grand battles and the fate of the world are common themes, and there is typically some emphasis on a universal Good versus Evil conflict.”
Paul, while I agree with respect to short stories, I disagree completely when it comes to novels. Where is the tipping point between “a few breakout writers” and popular? Off the top of my head, Terry Brooks, David Eddings, Terry Goodkind, Robin Hobb, Robert Jordan, George R. R. Martin, Tad WIlliams. And that’s not counting low-or-midlisters, classics, or new authors. Urban Fantasy is going great guns right now, but I can’t think of another subgenre of fantasy that outsells heroic. Not sure quite how to count YA, which dominates by sheer sales, but I’m thinking of those books that one finds in the F&SF section of the bookstore. I haven’t done a statistical tally, but the titles and cover art that look at me when I walk through the aisles are overwhelmingly HF.
Me personally, I like the occasional HF romp, but my tastes range all over the place. When it comes to short fiction, I am entirely unsurprised that it doesn’t dominate the market the same way. We’ve been Tolkien-trained to understand HF at novel length or longer, so it’s hard for many people — readers or writers — to get their heads around short heroic fiction. I like the way its tropes and themes have spread out to (or been appropriated by) other genres.
I love heroic fantasy with a passion, because I think it really speaks to the human experience more so than mainstream literature. It seems like whenever I go to a major magazine website the stories are all modern. Now I have to go with smaller press magazines in order to get my stuff published. I’m not downplaying the in-style stuff in any way, I just like heroic fantasy better.
I was all prepared to whip up some dazzling insightful comment, but instead I think I’ll just plan on re-reading Moorcock’s Wizardry and Wild Romance tonight.
Matthew, I’ve meant to read that for years. Thanks for reminding me about it.
Oh, and I’ll actually be meeting Mr. Moorcock this week – but I may say little else at present.
I’ll report more at a later time.
Andrew, have you read Moorcock’s “Epic Pooh?”
http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953
Well, on the stories I think it’s a bit of a no-brainer. Heroic fantasy needs space to breathe and to bring the “epic” strong. Same with space opera. You’re much more likely to find the best stuff in novelette, novella, or novel form. Some people can pull off the short stories, but they tend to be parts of series about the same character, like Elric or like Conan or the Grey Mouser/Fafhred, etc. So in that case it’s almost like an episodic journey anyway, in which the past events often impinge on the present narrative, so you get a mosaic novel effect.
JeffV
I don’t think that heroic fantasy has outlived its short story days. I sold a story (3300 words) that you might consider “heroic fantasy” to a webzine recently, and the webzine is pretty popular (circulation 3000 according to Writer’s Market 2007.) I respect Steampunk, etc. I just don’t think heroic fantasy in short story form is outlived. But maybe our definitions of the genre are different.
I define heroic fantasy, perhaps erroneously, as a story set in pre-industrial times with a focus on action (not necessarily violence) and plot. That might be over simplistic.
“I respect Steampunk, etc. ”
Why can steampunk not be heroic fantasy?
BTW, I’m redacting my comment above about it not selling well. I meant short fictionwise, and then, my example authors don’t really work. but I don’t think there is a malaise against heroic fiction. In fact, I consider right now a great time for it. There is a rebirth in the form, written by writers influenced by Moorcock and etc, rebelling against the Epic pooh style stories that act as comfort food. Or maybe I’m just guessing. But I don’t think people are sick of it, or tired of it. I think is a misconception promoted by people for their own agenda (which is excusing away the reason why their own work isn’t selling).
But yeah, sometimes when I write short stories the people who read them say “That’s a novel in short story form.” Either it’s because I write heroic fantasy, or because I’m a natural novelist forced to write short stories to build a resume–lol!
Why would there be as much of an interest in “heroic” fantasy in a day in age when former “heroes” are appearing in court on drug charges, Presidents are viewed as condoning torture, and there is a growing cynicism about the whole notion of heroism, as reflected in the rise in popularity of anti-heroes?
I think the blame rests partly on the times we live in. This is a paranoid time, what with wars, governments who eschew their obligations to govern by the rules of law, and climate change devastation up the ying yang. Like the Cold war paranoia which fueled the b-movie monsters of the ’50s, now we get dark, brooding melodramas. There is heroism, but it’s always embrued with questions of morality, which does tend to put a damper on the hack-and-slash heroics of Conan and his ilk. Right now, people distrust ‘heroes’, and why shouldn’t they?
As others mentioned above, heroic fantasy is more common in the novel format than the short story. However, it’s still out there, if you look at the appropriate publications. Black Gate for example publishes sword & sorcery and game companies with fiction lines (i.e. Wizards of the Coast, Paizo Publishing/Planet Stories, or even the Warcraft and Diablo franchise/adaptations) do churn out new, heroic fantasy short fiction.
Why aren’t they making it to best-of anthologies is a different problem altogether. In certain ways, I think it is out of style when it comes to editors tastes, or rather it’s difficult (i.e. not so common) to come up with a heroic fantasy story that’s not cliche and different. That’s not to say they aren’t out there. As Joe Sherry mentioned, there’s Twenty Epics which I think re-appropriates the sub-genre and infused it with modern sensibilities. And then there’s all these urban fantasy books (and short stories), many of which are “heroic fantasy” but not necessarily “high fantasy” (the two sometimes are synonymous and I wonder if “heroic high fantasy” is what the writer meant).
Good point at the end, Charles: I equated “heroic” fantasy to “epic” or “high” fantasy in the tradition of Eddings / Brooks / Jordan / Feist / etc (the long running fantasy series that are the entry points for many young readers)…the stuff we see in novels which need room to breath, as Mr. Vandermeer pointed out.
Charles Tan-
Yes, it is out there. You just need to look. Including the places you mentioned, you can also find Heroic fantasy shorts scattered across magazines. You can find examples in F&SF (the noosphere stories, and others), examples in Realms of fantasy (when they publish Tanith Lee, as well as Jay Lake and Ruth Nestvold’s Rose Knight stories), and in many other places.
But most of all- I have seen it in Year’s Best. In fact, in the most well known one: YBFH. Since Kelly Link and Gavin Gant have picked up the fantasy side, you can see one or two or three in a given YBFH. My favorite, The Ice Dragon, was in YFBH 2006.
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